A morning with the JWs
I was cleaning the house this morning when the doorbell rang. Two ladies, both holding their bibles tightly. introduced themselves and Jehovah's Witnesses. They started out asking if I minded if they quoted scripture to me. Of course I didn't mind and I told them to go ahead. They quoted a passage from Isaiah about how there will be no more sickness when the Messiah came. They asked me a few questions about scripture and determined that I knew enough about the bible to find out my religious background. (Their words exactly: You know scripture pretty well, what religion are you?) I told them. First they tried to argue that we weren't the first Christian church. I responded that if they really wanted to get into that coversation that I had history to back me up. Then they changed tactics and they started quoted scriptures that, in their opinion, were anti-Trinity. They were set in their ways to convince me that Jesus Christ was not God. I, in turn, turned to John chapter 1. I read it aloud.
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." (By this point they tried to interrupt me, but I read on.) "In Him was life and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in darkness and the darkness did not comprehend it."
I stopped and looked up. I asked them who they believed the Word was. They responded with a "Jesus." They were both sitting violently flipping through their bibles trying to come up with a good response. They quoted a verse about Jesus being the MESSIAH, but not actually God. I repeated, "The Word was God."
They did not respond to that but said, "Later in that scripture John said that no one has seen God at any time!" I said, "No one has directly seen the nature of God."
One of the women responded, "It takes more faith for you to believe in the Trinity than for us to believe that Jesus is not God."
I paused and said, "Thanks."
They said they needed to go and so we said goodbye.
10 Comments:
Interesting, the JWs just visited me on Sat. and read me the exact same verse. I never know what to say to them. I listened for a bit and took their silly magazine and threw it in the trash after they left. It seems like they come by every couple of months to work my neighborhood.
Good for you that you made a good argument. I've heard the type of Bible they read actually has the verses you read "translated" differently. I found your blog from Sara's btw...:)
“And Moses said unto God, ‘Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel and shall say unto them, “The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you” and they shall say to me, “what is His name?” what shall I say unto them?’”
“And God said unto Moses, ‘I AM THAT I AM’ and He said, ‘Thus shall you say unto the children of Israel, ‘I AM hath sent me unto you’.” (Exodus 3:13-14)
“Jesus said unto them, ‘Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM’.” (John 8:58)
Consider also that there are several places in the gospels in which it is recorded that the apostles fell at Jesus’ feet and worshipped Him. He never rebuked them or said to them “Do not worship me, for I am only a servant of God as you are!” Rather, He received their worship as meet and right.
So He called Himself by the very name of God, the great I AM, and He received the worship of His apostles. To paraphrase C. S. Lewis, if Jesus were not truly God in doing these things, then He was either a lunatic or an impostor.
Jesus answered, "Don't you know me Phillip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father?'" John 14:9.
Also, after Jesus revealed Himself to Thomas, he exclaimed to Jesus, "My Lord and my God."(John 20:28) and, as Fr. Michael said, Jesus didn't rebuke Thomas for saying this.
But 'cat' aksed, Why did "He only ever said he was the SON of God"? It a good question and I really wodner the answer could be? (In english same as hebrew as greek, word Son is not mean same as word father, right?)
You are right, Terry.
I am a human being, and a father. I have a son, who is not me, but he is a human being, because human beings beget human beings, dogs beget puppies, cats beget kittens.
If God has a Son, that Son is not the Father, but He is as much God as His Father, for like begets like.
"Light of Light; true God of true God; begotten not made" as the Nicene Creed declares.
I believe Colossians 1:15-20 pretty much sums it up for me.
But ultimately, Thank God for the witness of faithful men and women to the truth of our faith throughout the ages.
I agree with munkee.
Colossians 1:15-17 and Proverbs 8:22-31 certainly show that Jesus was created (begotten) and that he and his Father are definitely separate persons.
As the Bible states Jesus helped his father create the whole universe. That's why at Genesis 1:26 it says, "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness..." Who was Jehovah God speaking to? Why, none other than his Son, Jesus Christ, The "firstborn of all creation". (Col 1:15)
and here we go, round and round, this scripture means this, this scripture means that. Heretics, Schismatics, all wielding the scripture in their hands and screaming that they have the correct understanding of a faith their forefathers had no connection to. they all 25,000+ different groups with different opinions on what exactly the scripture say and mean. They have no desire for phronema...nor do they see a need for it. Here is the place for epiphany, I know for me personally it was literally like a light going on and a realization that I had received a very contorted version of faith in the one God.
Dear Anon. JW, you have my prayers, for I know you have already made up your mind as to what the faith looks like.
Boy, I almost forgot the big fun of the door-to-door JW or Mormon encounter. Doesn't happen in the Midwest -- too cold for heretics?
Anyway, I wasn't nearly as level-headed and capable as you guys are at handling them. I think the best I ever did was one time in the grand days when I was living in the apartment next to Fr. Mike. I was in a terrible mood for some reason, and when the bright and shiny young person got four words into their schpiel, I said, "Yeah, yeah. Okay, my priest lives in #1 here. You talk him into this, and then he can come and tell me alllll about it." And I shut the door.
It was a VERY rude thing to do, of course. But ... efficient. They didn't bother me, and I'm not sure they felt like talking to Fr. Mike either.
Total tangent...I never realized the correlation for the following quote from Napoleon Dynamite:
Uncle Rico: We also need some way to make us look official, like we got all the answers.
Kip: How about some gold bracelets?
Uncle Rico: We need, like, some name tags...with our picture on it, all laminated and whatnot. I mean, we gotta look legit, man.
Kip: That's true. That's true.
Sounds to me like the Mormons have the whole door to door thing down pat!
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